Legislature(2007 - 2008)BARNES 124

03/05/2007 08:30 AM House FISHERIES


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08:42:14 AM Start
08:43:02 AM HB134
09:54:59 AM Adjourn
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
+= HB 134 PROTECTION OF SALMON SPAWNING WATER TELECONFERENCED
Heard & Held
+ Bills Previously Heard/Scheduled TELECONFERENCED
                    ALASKA STATE LEGISLATURE                                                                                  
              HOUSE SPECIAL COMMITTEE ON FISHERIES                                                                            
                         March 5, 2007                                                                                          
                           8:42 a.m.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
MEMBERS PRESENT                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
Representative Paul Seaton, Chair                                                                                               
Representative Kyle Johansen                                                                                                    
Representative Craig Johnson                                                                                                    
Representative Peggy Wilson                                                                                                     
Representative Bryce Edgmon                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MEMBERS ABSENT                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
Representative Gabrielle LeDoux                                                                                                 
Representative Lindsey Holmes                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
COMMITTEE CALENDAR                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
HOUSE BILL NO. 134                                                                                                              
"An Act relating to conservation and protection of wild salmon                                                                  
production in drainages affecting the Bristol Bay Fisheries                                                                     
Reserve; and providing for an effective date."                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
     - HEARD AND HELD                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
PREVIOUS COMMITTEE ACTION                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
BILL: HB 134                                                                                                                  
SHORT TITLE: PROTECTION OF SALMON SPAWNING WATER                                                                                
SPONSOR(s): REPRESENTATIVE(s) EDGMON                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
02/14/07       (H)       READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRALS                                                                        
02/14/07       (H)       FSH, RES                                                                                               
02/28/07       (H)       FSH AT 8:30 AM BARNES 124                                                                              
02/28/07       (H)       Heard & Held                                                                                           
02/28/07       (H)       MINUTE(FSH)                                                                                            
03/02/07       (H)       FSH AT 8:30 AM BARNES 124                                                                              
03/02/07       (H)       Heard & Held                                                                                           
03/02/07       (H)       MINUTE(FSH)                                                                                            
03/05/07       (H)       FSH AT 8:30 AM BARNES 124                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
WITNESS REGISTER                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
KARL RAWSON                                                                                                                     
South Naknek, Alaska                                                                                                            
POSITION STATEMENT:  Stated opposition to HB 134.                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
ALEXUS KWACHKA                                                                                                                  
Kodiak, Alaska                                                                                                                  
POSITION STATEMENT:  Stated support for HB 134.                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
JASON METROKIN, Board Member/Shareholder                                                                                        
Bristol Bay Native Corporation (BBNC)                                                                                           
Anchorage, Alaska                                                                                                               
POSITION STATEMENT:  Stated opposition to HB 134.                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
RICHARD MILL                                                                                                                    
Ninilchik, Alaska                                                                                                               
POSITION STATEMENT:  Stated support for HB 134.                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
JASON BENNER                                                                                                                    
Homer, Alaska                                                                                                                   
POSITION STATEMENT:  Stated support for HB 134.                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
BEN NYGREN                                                                                                                      
Dillingham, Alaska                                                                                                              
POSITION STATEMENT:  Stated support for HB 134.                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
MARK E. ANGASAN                                                                                                                 
King Salmon, Alaska                                                                                                             
POSITION STATEMENT:  Stated opposition to HB 134 [SB 67                                                                         
referenced].                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
WILLIAM COOK                                                                                                                    
Dillingham, Alaska                                                                                                              
POSITION STATEMENT:  Stated support for HB 134.                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
GAIL PHILLIPS, Member                                                                                                           
Truth About Pebble                                                                                                              
Anchorage, Alaska                                                                                                               
POSITION STATEMENT:  Stated opposition to HB 134.                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
JOEL TUTT                                                                                                                       
Homer, Alaska                                                                                                                   
POSITION STATEMENT:  Stated support for HB 134.                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
DAVID BOONE                                                                                                                     
Homer, Alaska                                                                                                                   
POSITION STATEMENT:  Stated support for HB 134.                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
DAN SALMON                                                                                                                      
Igiugig Village Council                                                                                                         
Igiugig, Alaska                                                                                                                 
POSITION STATEMENT:  Stated opposition to HB 134.                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
CLARA ANGASAN                                                                                                                   
King Salmon, Alaska                                                                                                             
POSITION STATEMENT:  Stated opposition to HB 134.                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
SALLY GUMLICKPUK, President                                                                                                     
Stuyahok Limited                                                                                                                
New Stuyahok, Alaska                                                                                                            
POSITION STATEMENT:  Stated support for HB 134.                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
JOHN TOPPENBERG, Director                                                                                                       
Alaska Wildlife Alliance                                                                                                        
Soldotna, Alaska                                                                                                                
POSITION STATEMENT:  Stated support for HB 134.                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
JOSEPH JOYNER, Natural Resource Manager                                                                                         
Division of Mining, Land and Water                                                                                              
Department of Natural Resources (DNR)                                                                                           
Anchorage, Alaska                                                                                                               
POSITION STATEMENT:  Responded to questions regarding HB 134.                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
ACTION NARRATIVE                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  PAUL   SEATON  called  the  House   Special  Committee  on                                                             
Fisheries  meeting  to  order at  8:42:14  AM.    Representatives                                                             
Edgmon, Johnson,  and Wilson were  present at the call  to order.                                                               
Representative Johansen arrived as the meeting was in progress.                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
HB 134-PROTECTION OF SALMON SPAWNING WATER                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
8:43:02 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR SEATON announced  that the only order of  business would be                                                               
HOUSE  BILL  NO.  134,  "An  Act  relating  to  conservation  and                                                               
protection of  wild salmon production in  drainages affecting the                                                               
Bristol  Bay Fisheries  Reserve; and  providing for  an effective                                                               
date."                                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
[The motion  to adopt CSHB  134, Version  M, was left  pending at                                                               
the 2/28/07 meeting.]                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR SEATON opened public testimony.                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
8:44:39 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
KARL RAWSON, stated opposition to HB  134, and said that it holds                                                               
one  industry  accountable  over  another  for  safeguarding  the                                                               
environment.   When the fishing  season ends, and  the industries                                                               
[fish  canneries]  "pull-out,"  the  beaches  are  littered  with                                                               
garbage, which  the municipalities residents clean-up  each year.                                                               
The canneries  do not satisfy  the employment needs of  the area,                                                               
or  the  needed diversification  for  economic  development.   He                                                               
opined that without Shell Oil  or Northern Dynasty, bringing more                                                               
jobs in,  the communities will dwindle  and the area may  be used                                                               
only for  a summer time  recreation area.   He stressed  the need                                                               
for the villages to have further employment opportunities.                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
8:48:06 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
ALEXUS KWACHKA,  stated support for HB  134, and said that,  as a                                                               
Bristol Bay fisherman,  he is very concerned  with the downstream                                                               
effects of  mining in the region.   He expressed empathy  for the                                                               
village  residents, and  underscored that  he is  not opposed  to                                                               
mining conducted  in an environmentally  friendly way.   However,                                                               
he expressed concern for disrupting  what is already working well                                                               
in the area, in the way of renewable seafood resources.                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
8:49:54 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR SEATON asked  if his concerns are  primarily for downstream                                                               
pollution  from the  proposed mine,  or the  aspects of  the bill                                                               
that restrict the use of water, from the watershed.                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
MR. KWACHKA responded that both  the hydrology effects as well as                                                               
the pollution threat,  are concerns.  He cited  the experience in                                                               
Karluk,  where the  fishery was  "wiped-out" and  has never  been                                                               
able to recover,  despite the best biological efforts.   There is                                                               
enough trial and error from the  past to learn from, and he said,                                                               
"I'm concerned of  basically tampering with the  hydrology in any                                                               
way, shape or form."                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
8:51:09 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE WILSON inquired whether  he commercially fishes in                                                               
Bristol Bay solely, or other areas also.                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
MR. KWACHKA  answered that  50-70 percent of  his income  is from                                                               
fishing in Bristol Bay.                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
8:51:54 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
JASON  METROKIN,  Board  Member/Shareholder, Bristol  Bay  Native                                                               
Corporation (BBNC),  stated opposition  to HB  134, on  behalf of                                                               
the BBNC  Board of  Directors.  The  board considers  the blanket                                                               
legislation  to  be  an  impediment  to  economic  and  community                                                               
development.    Despite the  need  to  preserve and  protect  the                                                               
fishery,  development in  the area  is necessary.   He  expressed                                                               
concern  that  the  measures  stipulated in  HB  134  would  make                                                               
fundamental community  projects cost prohibitive, if  not legally                                                               
impossible.    "Planned and  future  developments  in our  region                                                               
should not  be at  the mercy of  legislation, designed  to single                                                               
out  one   controversial  project."    He   offered  the  board's                                                               
suggestion that the bill be rewritten.                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
8:54:18 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
RICHARD  MILL,  stated support  for  HB  134,  and said  that  he                                                               
derives  75 percent  of  his income  from  commercial fishing  in                                                               
Bristol  Bay, and  the balance  from fishing  the Kvichak/Iliamna                                                               
Lake area.   He relayed  his concern for the  downriver pollution                                                               
caused by  leach mining.   On a nation  wide scale, this  type of                                                               
mining has proven  detrimental, he said.   Problems of containing                                                               
the  contaminants,   and  chemicals,  continue  to   occur,  with                                                               
devastating  effects on  surrounding  watersheds.   Additionally,                                                               
the  ExxonMobil   Corporation  has  proven  that   the  judiciary                                                               
safeguards  are not  valid.   After 20  years, mitigation  of the                                                               
Prince  William Sound  oil  spill  is still  pending.   He  urged                                                               
passage of the bill.                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
8:56:31 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
JASON  BENNER, stated  support for  HB 134,  and said  that 80-90                                                               
percent  of  his  annual  income   is  derived  as  a  commercial                                                               
fisherman  in   Bristol  Bay.    Additionally,   his  family  has                                                               
owned/operated  a guiding  camp on  the Nushagak  River, for  the                                                               
past 15 years.  He explained  that he is originally from Montana,                                                               
and  described his  experience of  witnessing Northern  Dynasties                                                               
mining  work  in  the Bitterroot  Valley  region,  reporting  the                                                               
devastation to the  Blackfoot River that the  company has caused.                                                               
Montana is  still paying the  price, monetarily in  the millions,                                                               
as  well as  the loss  of the  fishery, and  environmental costs.                                                               
Mitigation has  not been possible  due to Northern  Dynasty being                                                               
from outside of  the United States.  He stated  support for small                                                               
scale, non-chemical mining.                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
8:58:34 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE JOHNSON  asked what  the distinction is  between a                                                               
camp and  a lodge, and  whether it is  delineated by the  type of                                                               
structure involved.                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
MR.  BENNER  described  the  camp,  which  his  family  operates,                                                               
stating  that  they do  have  a  physical structure,  boats,  and                                                               
equipment available to the users.                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
8:59:44 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR SEATON  inquired whether his  family holds  perfected water                                                               
rights for the use of the facility.                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
MR. BENNER responded that the camp  utilizes a well, and does not                                                               
draw water from the river.                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
9:00:18 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
BEN  NYGREN,  stated support  for  HB  134, paraphrasing  from  a                                                               
prepared statement,  which read as follows  [original punctuation                                                               
provided]:                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
     I support  the aim of  HB 134, which is  the protection                                                                    
     of the  waters which  nourish Bristol  Bay's prodigious                                                                    
     and  lucrative   salmon  runs.    These   local  salmon                                                                    
     populations  are  a  renewable  economic  and  cultural                                                                    
     treasure.   Industrial scale removal of  water from the                                                                    
     streams in  which this  treasured resource  rears would                                                                    
     be just like  sucking part of the air  out of someone's                                                                    
     home.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
     I  was reared  in  Portland, Oregon,  a short  distance                                                                    
     from  the  mighty  Columbia  River.    This  river  was                                                                    
     formerly  home to  one of  the world's  greatest salmon                                                                    
     populations.   Careless  development  has slashed  this                                                                    
     stock  to a  shadow of  its former  self.   Billions of                                                                    
     dollars  have  been  spent   to  restore  the  Columbia                                                                    
     watershed's  salmon  to their  pre-development  levels,                                                                    
     with  the successful  outcome still  far from  certain.                                                                    
     With wild salmon  taking hits all over  the world, what                                                                    
     a great feeling  it is that our Bristol  Bay stocks are                                                                    
     still in relative good health.                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
     If the  waters of our  salmon streams are  diverted for                                                                    
     the  purposes of  extracting,  transporting or  storing                                                                    
     sulfide  bearing  mineral ore,  there  would  be in  my                                                                    
     opinion an  unacceptable risk that these  once pristine                                                                    
     waters  would come  back to  haunt  us in  the form  of                                                                    
     sulfuric  acid,   dissolved  heavy  metals   and  other                                                                    
     toxins.                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
     I don't  see this  bill as  favoring one  industry over                                                                    
     another.    When  an industry  pollutes,  or  otherwise                                                                    
     damages  our  environment,  without incurring  a  cost,                                                                    
     that  industry is  not paying  the full  true cost  for                                                                    
     their activities.                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
     If  denying  mining   companies  these  salmon  bearing                                                                    
     waters for their  industrial use adds to  their cost of                                                                    
     doing business,  then that added cost  is only bringing                                                                    
     them closer to  paying the true overall  cost for their                                                                    
     activities.                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
     My family  has a heritage  in the mining industry.   My                                                                    
     father and  two generations  before him worked  part or                                                                    
     most of their lives in  the Montana mining industry.  I                                                                    
     am not  opposed to mining and  recognize its importance                                                                    
     in  our  world.    The   headwaters  of  Bristol  Bay's                                                                    
     important salmon  streams are  however the  wrong place                                                                    
     for industrial scale mining.                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
     Illustrations   of  environmental   detriment  incurred                                                                    
     elsewhere  in our  country, which  may be  analogous to                                                                    
     future  industry caused  problems  in  the Bristol  Bay                                                                    
     watershed include:                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
     1) The Berkley pit in  Butte, Montana.  This now closed                                                                    
     open pit copper  mine is over one mile  in diameter and                                                                    
     1800  feet deep.   After  mining operations  ceased, it                                                                    
     filled with  a toxic stew  of arsenic and  heavy metals                                                                    
     so thick  that the  water itself is  mined, and  is now                                                                    
     the  nation's  largest   body  of  contaminated  water.                                                                    
     Though  ARCO, the  sites owners,  deny  this poses  any                                                                    
     risk  to  human or  wildlife  health,  a 1995  incident                                                                    
     where 342  snow geese  died after  landing on  the site                                                                    
     may  lead  one  to  question  ARCO's  credibility  when                                                                    
     speaking to  their site's safety.   The estimated total                                                                    
     cost  for  cleanup  and  control at  the  pit  is  $110                                                                    
     million.                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
     2) On  June 5, 1976 an  earthen dam, the Teton  Dam, in                                                                    
     Idaho  failed  spectacularly.   Downstream  communities                                                                    
     where severely  damaged, and the government  was liable                                                                    
     for $322  million dollars  in claims.   A few  hours of                                                                    
     advanced warning  afforded many  the chance to  flee to                                                                    
     safety, but 11 lives where still lost.                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR SEATON asked whether he is primarily concerned about the                                                                  
pollution, water use issues, or environmental changes.                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
MR. NYGREN said, "If we're talking about sulfide mining fill                                                                    
sitting upstream from me, I'm opposed to that."                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
9:04:55 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE EDGMON pointed out that the original bill has                                                                    
brought forth a number of unintended consequences, which will be                                                                
addressed in the CS version.                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
9:05:53 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MARK E. ANGASAN, stated opposition to HB 134 [SB 67 referenced],                                                                
paraphrasing from a prepared statement, which read as follows                                                                   
[original punctuation provided]:                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
     I  am an  Alaskan Native,  I  have lived  here in  King                                                                    
     Salmon all of my life, I  am married, I have a son that                                                                    
     is married and  I have 3 grandchildren  that also lives                                                                    
     here in King  Salmon.  I have been  a commercial salmon                                                                    
     fisherman all  of my life.   We also harvest  food from                                                                    
     the land  and our lakes  and rivers to  help supplement                                                                    
     our homes with  food.  I want to  express my opposition                                                                    
     to any plans to develop  the Hammond fish refuge in the                                                                    
     region  and  the  Alaska  Wild  Salmon  Protection  Act                                                                    
     (Senate Bill 67 and House Bill  134).  I am speaking to                                                                    
     both  because  I see  them  both  as  a means  to  stop                                                                    
     economic development  in Bristol  Bay.  We  are already                                                                    
     surrounded  by  enough  refuges,  reserves,  State  and                                                                    
     National Parks.                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
     Those of  us who  live here  see the  need to  keep our                                                                    
     options open  to future economic development  - whether                                                                    
     it's the Pebble  project, oil & gas  development or any                                                                    
     other  economic  opportunities that  SB  67  or HB  134                                                                    
     might  preclude.   We can  no longer  afford to  be the                                                                    
     play ground for  the rich who come here to  play or for                                                                    
     the  special  interest  groups  that  want  to  involve                                                                    
     themselves in our  lives.  We can no  longer allow them                                                                    
     to dictate to us what is in our best interests.                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
     We  shouldn't be  forced to  consider limited  economic                                                                    
     opportunities  because  of  the  fear  mongering,  peer                                                                    
     pressure, and  the misleading information  taking place                                                                    
     about  developing  our  natural recourses.    We  can't                                                                    
     continue to say there are  cures in the near future for                                                                    
     our  salmon fisheries.   Or  make  statements that  our                                                                    
     salmon  fishery is  coming back,  it's on  the rebound.                                                                    
     When is that  going to happen?  How many  more years do                                                                    
     we  have to  keep  telling ourselves  that?   The  fish                                                                    
     prices that  we are getting  to day  is what we  got 30                                                                    
     years  ago and  it isn't  keeping up  with the  cost of                                                                    
     living.   Many  of our  people no  longer fish  because                                                                    
     they sold their  permits.  At one time we  had over 800                                                                    
     drift permits in  our villages today we  have less than                                                                    
     400.  We need economic diversity.                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
     As  for the  Pebble mine  project, there  is no  permit                                                                    
     application to judge, to the  best of my knowledge they                                                                    
     haven't  completed  the  environmental reviews  or  the                                                                    
     impacts studies that  are to be submitted  to State and                                                                    
     Federal  regulators   for  permitting.    And   if  the                                                                    
     environmental  and   impact  studies  don't   pass  the                                                                    
     reviews the  mine will not  be able to operate.   Until                                                                    
     all  the  reviews are  completed  there  is nothing  to                                                                    
     judge.                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
     There is  no group more concerned  about the protection                                                                    
     of our  fish and  wildlife resources  than those  of us                                                                    
     who live  here.   But we  also know  that Alaska  has a                                                                    
     system in  place for ensuring  environmental protection                                                                    
     that has a  proven tract record.  If I  am wrong please                                                                    
     correct me.                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
     Too often,  policy makers can  be convinced to  rush to                                                                    
     make a  decision for the  sake of  satisfying political                                                                    
     promises  made to  special interest  groups  or to  the                                                                    
     wealthy that  made campaign contributions.   I  want to                                                                    
     assure you  that many  of us that  live in  this region                                                                    
     recognize the  long-term impacts of pushing  ahead with                                                                    
     this  fish refuge  proposal at  the  expense of  future                                                                    
     economic opportunities  and the ability to  provide for                                                                    
     ourselves.                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
     For  those that  want  to stop  development within  our                                                                    
     region of the state, I  ask what solutions do they have                                                                    
     to provide for economic  growth, diversity and security                                                                    
     for  us?   The  answer  is nothing!!    Are these  same                                                                    
     people  going to  put food  on  our tables?   Are  they                                                                    
     going to put  oil in our tanks?  Are  they going to pay                                                                    
     for our light bills?  Are  they going to put gas in our                                                                    
     trucks?   Are they going  to provide for  our financial                                                                    
     wants and needs?   No, they won't.  We  need to do that                                                                    
     for  ourselves, but  they want  to  dictate under  what                                                                    
     conditions we are to live in.                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
     The late  Governor Hammond has passed  on, please don't                                                                    
     bury  us with  him  by adopting  these two  legislative                                                                    
     proposals.  Don't sacrifice a  region and its people of                                                                    
     new  economic opportunities  because  someone wants  to                                                                    
     honor his name or by saying  that this is what he would                                                                    
     have  wanted.   People  are trying  to romanticize  and                                                                    
     twist his  words.   He supported  economic development.                                                                    
     In the  early 60's as  our State Representative  he was                                                                    
     successful in getting a resolution  passed in the State                                                                    
     legislature  to develop  a road  from  the Bristol  Bay                                                                    
     Borough  thru  the  Katmai National  Park  to  a  ferry                                                                    
     terminal   in  the   Shelikof's  to   promote  economic                                                                    
     development.   As  shown here:   Katmai  Administrative                                                                    
     History 1950-69 Chapter 4.                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
     We  still need  a  road,  railroad or  a  dirt path  to                                                                    
     Anchorage,  the  Interior  Rail  belt  or  to  a  ferry                                                                    
     terminal  to  promote  economic  opportunities  and  to                                                                    
     reduce the cost  of living to the region.   Forgive me,                                                                    
     but  this  is  what  our State  Legislature  should  be                                                                    
     working on,  not trying to  find ways to  stop economic                                                                    
     growth  and development  from occurring  within Bristol                                                                    
     Bay.   We still  need ground  transportation.   We need                                                                    
     economic growth and security.   We need cheaper energy.                                                                    
     We need to  reduce the cost of living  to our villages.                                                                    
     Where's the Legislation to address these issues?                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
     We live in  a cash economy, we need more  than just the                                                                    
     ability to pick berries and  put fish in the freezer as                                                                    
     we all do.   We need more than living  in a subsistence                                                                    
     lifestyle.   Please don't allow this  legislation to be                                                                    
     adopted.   We need major economic  change and solutions                                                                    
     for the long term.                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
9:12:43 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR SEATON reminded witnesses to focus on the issues of the                                                                   
bill.                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
9:13:25 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
WILLIAM COOK, stated support for HB 134, paraphrasing from a                                                                    
prepared statement, which read as follows [original punctuation                                                                 
provided]:                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
     Once  the  hydrology  of   this  region  gets  changed,                                                                    
     altered, or polluted, the mining  company won't be able                                                                    
     to take it back it will be too late.                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
     I  have very  real  concerns about  the  future of  the                                                                    
     Bristol Bay region, its people, and its fisheries.                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
     The  ecological impact  of large  scale sulfide  mining                                                                    
     for copper,  and the ecological impact  of cyanide heap                                                                    
     leaching for gold.  These  present very serious threats                                                                    
     to  our environment  that will  affect  this area,  its                                                                    
     fisheries both sports and commercial fishing.                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
     This will  also create  health risks  to the  people of                                                                    
     Bristol Bay region for thousands of years.                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
     A mine  on the  scale of this  one can  generate almost                                                                    
     unimaginable  amounts   of  particulate  contamination,                                                                    
     trillions  of   gallons  of   contaminated  wastewater,                                                                    
     trillions of tons of acid generating tailings.                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
     Just the  fact that  someone wants  to use  cyanide! (a                                                                    
     deadly  poison) on  an industrial  level upstream  from                                                                    
     where my family lives, makes it unacceptable.                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
     This mine is an ecological disaster waiting to happen.                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
     How can  anyone or any  company tell the people  of the                                                                    
     Bristol Bay  region and the  state of Alaska  that they                                                                    
     can   provide   adequate    habitat   protection   from                                                                    
     contamination  of  this  magnitude  and  expect  us  to                                                                    
     believe it!                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
     How can  contaminated materials  of this  magnitude not                                                                    
     affect the aquifer, the watershed, and groundwater.                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
     It  is  true  that  the  mine  will  provide  jobs  and                                                                    
     infrastructure.   But  at what  cost?   Long after  the                                                                    
     mining company  is gone the  people of the  Bristol Bay                                                                    
     region will  be living  the legacy  of the  damage this                                                                    
     mine  can do  to our  environment.   Just so  a company                                                                    
     owned  by some  person or,  persons in  another country                                                                    
     can get rich!                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
     I pray that  those of you who are in  a place where you                                                                    
     have an opportunity to protect  the people of the state                                                                    
     of  Alaska and  the Bristol  Bay region  will have  the                                                                    
     wisdom  and courage  to protect  us from  the greed  of                                                                    
     outside  interests,  have  the wisdom  and  courage  to                                                                    
     protect us  from our  own greed,  and the  foresight to                                                                    
     protect our water!  By supporting this bill HB 134.                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
     After  reading Mr.  Trasky's  testimony  on the  mining                                                                    
     permit  process,  I  feel strongly  these  need  to  be                                                                    
     addressed and rectified  as well.  These  are very real                                                                    
     and serious problems.                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
9:16:39 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
GAIL PHILLIPS, Member, Truth About Pebble, stated opposition to                                                                 
HB 134, paraphrasing from a prepared statement, which read as                                                                   
follows [original punctuation provided]:                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
     I  think  this bill  should  be  renamed from  "An  act                                                                    
     relating to conservation and  protection of wild salmon                                                                    
     production....."  to a  more  honest assessment,  which                                                                    
     would be  "the illegal  takings of  any and  all future                                                                    
     economic  and  resource   development  for  the  entire                                                                    
     Bristol Bay region".                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
     You have  previously heard credible  opposing testimony                                                                    
     to  this unprecedented  and  transparent withdrawal  of                                                                    
     over 22  million acres  of mineral-productive  lands in                                                                    
     Southwest   Alaska;   lands  that   were   specifically                                                                    
     identified for mineral development  when the State made                                                                    
     its land selection.                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
     I  am  not   going  to  repeat  the   facts  that  have                                                                    
     previously been presented to you  in opposition of this                                                                    
     bill; I  am, however,  going to  focus my  testimony on                                                                    
     three major issues:  (1)a  blatantly onerous attempt to                                                                    
     circumvent   Alaska's  legally-established   permitting                                                                    
     process; (2)  the "takings" issue  that will  result in                                                                    
     major   lawsuits    against   constitutional   mandates                                                                    
     regarding the development of  our natural resources for                                                                    
     the   benefit   of   all    Alaskans;   and   (3)   the                                                                    
     constitutional  mandates regarding  the development  of                                                                    
     our natural resources for the benefit of all Alaskans.                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
     1.  Circumvention of the State's Permitting Process:                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
     Alaska is  one of  the richest  resource states  in the                                                                    
     Union,  with many  types and  vast  amounts of  natural                                                                    
     resources  available for  development.    We have  been                                                                    
     diligent  in   our  efforts  to   create  comprehensive                                                                    
     permitting  policies  that  now  insure  the  safe  and                                                                    
     profitable development  of our  resources.  As  you are                                                                    
     all  aware,  laws  pertaining  to  Alaska's  permitting                                                                    
     process  are continually  updated  and  refined as  new                                                                    
     technologies become available.                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
     When I was Speaker of  the House, revising and updating                                                                    
     our  well-established permitting  policies  was a  high                                                                    
     priority.   We did  not do  this in a  vacuum -  all of                                                                    
     these policy  refinements were accomplished in  an open                                                                    
     public  process.    The   best  scientific  advice  was                                                                    
     applied,   while  conforming   to  State   and  Federal                                                                    
     guidelines and  the adamant direction of  the people of                                                                    
     Alaska to "DO THINGS RIGHT".                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
     As a  result of  Alaska's on-going  permitting process,                                                                    
     and  thanks to  many of  you for  your efforts  in this                                                                    
     regard,   we  now   have  major   resource  development                                                                    
     projects  throughout  the  State   that  are  the  most                                                                    
     environmentally safe in the Nation.                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
     This  blatant  attempt  to  circumvent  our  permitting                                                                    
     process, especially on lands  that have been previously                                                                    
     identified  for mineral  and  resource development,  is                                                                    
     egregious  and  completely   contrary  to  our  State's                                                                    
     fairness doctrine.                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
     2.  The "Takings" Issue:                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
     This   bill  would   specifically   stop  all   mineral                                                                    
     development.  Yet, at this  time we all know that there                                                                    
     is  a  mineral  prospect  in  the  area  that  has  the                                                                    
     potential  to  exceed  $2  billion  in  mined  product.                                                                    
     Geologic exploration and results  show this prospect to                                                                    
     be  one of  the largest  in the  world.   If this  bill                                                                    
     should pass  and the millions  of acres  withdrawn from                                                                    
     future mineral development,  "takings" lawsuits will be                                                                    
     inevitable.  We  don't have enough money  in the State,                                                                    
     including  all the  assets of  our  Permanent Fund,  to                                                                    
     cover  the  potential  amounts of  payments  that  will                                                                    
     follow.   This  one issue  alone could  easily bankrupt                                                                    
     the State of Alaska.                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
     3.  Constitutional Mandate to Develop our Resources:                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
     Each  of   you,  as  I   did  when  I  served   in  the                                                                    
     Legislature,  took  an oath  of  office  to uphold  the                                                                    
     Constitution  of our  State.   Article  VIII -  Natural                                                                    
     Resources  - of  our Constitution  is very  clear about                                                                    
     the policy  of the  State to encourage  the development                                                                    
     of  its resources  for maximum  public use  (Section 2)                                                                    
     and  that no  exclusive right  or special  privilege of                                                                    
     fishery shall  be created or authorized  in the natural                                                                    
     waters of the state (Section  15) and that all laws and                                                                    
     regulations  governing  the  use  or  disposal  of  our                                                                    
     natural resources  shall apply  equally to  all persons                                                                    
     (Section 17).   I think that an attempt  to approve any                                                                    
     version of  this onerous legislation  will put  each of                                                                    
     you in direct conflict with  your promise to uphold the                                                                    
     constitution.                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
9:22:04 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE EDGMON  questioned the "takings" issue,  which Ms.                                                               
Phillips  raised, and  suggested  the need  for additional  legal                                                               
opinions.  "We don't have, yet, the facts on the table."                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
MS. PHILLIPS  replied, "Certainly  legal opinions will  float all                                                               
over the place."  She opined  that, if these 22 million acres are                                                               
withdrawn from development, it will  effect a number of entities.                                                               
Northern Dynasty has made clear  their intent to proceed with the                                                               
permitting  process, and  if  disallowed  that opportunity  would                                                               
have legal standing for a takings lawsuit.                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
9:24:51 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
JOEL TUTT, stated  support for HB 134, and  identified himself as                                                               
a  third  generation fisherman,  deriving  80-90  percent of  his                                                               
income  from the  Bristol  Bay  fishery.   He  said, "I  strongly                                                               
believe  that the  watershed supporting  this  fishery should  be                                                               
protected at any cost."                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
9:25:26 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
DAVID BOONE,  stated support for  HB 134, and  identified himself                                                               
as a Bristol Bay fisherman.  He said:                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
     I  have a  degree  in fisheries  management, and  fully                                                                    
     understand the  delicate balance between  fish habitat,                                                                    
     and  fish   survival.    Protecting  the   Bristol  Bay                                                                    
     watersheds  would   help  insure  that   that  delicate                                                                    
     balance in nature won't be disturbed.                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
9:26:18 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
DAN SALMON, Igiugig Village Council, provided the following                                                                     
testimony:                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
     I'm  a Lake  and Peninsula  Borough Assembly  member, a                                                                    
     local school  advisory member, and an  alternate on the                                                                    
     Iliamna Lake  Fish & Game  Advisory Committee.   Today,                                                                    
     I'd  like  to  speak   on  behalf  of  Igiugig  Village                                                                    
     Council.   Igiugig Village Council is  strongly opposed                                                                    
     to  any  bill  creating   another  layer  of  land-  or                                                                    
     resource-use  restriction  on  us.   The  Iliamna  Lake                                                                    
     Advisory  Committee unanimously  rejected the  recently                                                                    
     proposed Fish  and Game  reserve concept  as well.   We                                                                    
     are  currently   flanked  by  Katmai  and   Lake  Clark                                                                    
     National  Park and  Preserve  and  are prohibited  from                                                                    
     uses  in  those  areas  already.     Our  local  Native                                                                    
     corporation has over  60,000 acres potentially impacted                                                                    
     by  this  bill's  provisions.   By  having  met  former                                                                    
     Governor Hammond  on numerous occasions  and discussing                                                                    
     his  views on  state  government and  policy more  than                                                                    
     once, I'm confident  he would've liked to  see a direct                                                                    
     benefit  to  the  indigenous  communities  and  locally                                                                    
     affected  people  as  (indisc.)  included  to  mitigate                                                                    
     negative  consequences  endured  by  those  having  the                                                                    
     greatest  potential economic  hardship offered  by this                                                                    
     bill.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
     I recommend a  PILO or Payment In  Lieu of Opportunity.                                                                    
     Having managed a rural  community for sustainability in                                                                    
     the Lake  and Peninsula Borough  for over 20  years and                                                                    
     for   having  been   recognized   for  fiscal   policy,                                                                    
     sustainability,   and   achievement,   I   suggest   an                                                                    
     amendment  to   this  proposed  piece   of  legislation                                                                    
     include[ing]  a yearly  allocation and  distribution of                                                                    
     $500,000 per  effected community plus  a formula-driven                                                                    
     per capita and  COLA [cost of living  allowance].  This                                                                    
     bottom-line   threshold   could   be  funded   by   CDQ                                                                    
     [community development  quota] communities  who benefit                                                                    
     through  legislation by  the  fisheries we're  excluded                                                                    
     from,  yearly legislative  appropriations,  as well  as                                                                    
     the  salmon industry,  both  commercial  and sport,  we                                                                    
     foster  as stewards  of spawning  and rearing  habitat.                                                                    
     Other individuals and groups  who seek to create parks,                                                                    
     refuges, critical  habitat, et cetera around  us should                                                                    
     contribute  to this  funding mechanism  as  well.   I'm                                                                    
     sure it  all could  agree that  this is  a drop  in the                                                                    
     bucket compared  to the potential  fiscal opportunities                                                                    
     we are giving up as a result of this legislation.                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
     For the  record, we are  enduring $5.50 per  gallon gas                                                                    
     and  oil,  $.60  to   $.70  per  kilowatt  electricity,                                                                    
     limited  infrastructure,  and exorbitant  unemployment.                                                                    
     Our population  is down  approximately 35  percent over                                                                    
     the last  five years  and our  school is  threatened by                                                                    
     closure.   We have  only one  Bristol Bay  drift permit                                                                    
     left in our  village and no setnet permits at  all.  We                                                                    
     do   have  residents   and  tribal   members  currently                                                                    
     employed  by NDM  [Northern  Dynasty  Mines] and  other                                                                    
     mineral  exploration  companies  who are  dependent  on                                                                    
     this  income  to  feed their  families  and  pay  their                                                                    
     bills.   Igiugig is officially neutral  on the proposed                                                                    
     Pebble  Project and  reserves support  or  not at  such                                                                    
     time  as development  permits are  applied  for and  we                                                                    
     have the  opportunity to evaluate and  make intelligent                                                                    
     decisions through an orderly, established process.                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
     I  ask  Mr.  Edgmon  and  other  legislators  to  spend                                                                    
     quality and  dedicated time on  developing implementing                                                                    
     meaningful  and  sustainable economic  opportunity  for                                                                    
     the  communities and  people  in the  Iliamna Lake  and                                                                    
     Upper  Nushagak  areas  that have  been  excluded  from                                                                    
     other legislatively  created programs.   Please include                                                                    
     our   PILO  concept   in   your  proposed   legislation                                                                    
     discussion.   It  is incumbent  on leaders  who propose                                                                    
     new laws  to thoroughly  perform due diligence  on cost                                                                    
     versus benefit.   As I believe I'm  the longest tenured                                                                    
     tribal  administrator   in  Bristol  Bay,  I   ask  the                                                                    
     following:  How many Bristol  Bay permits have left the                                                                    
     Upper Nushagak  and Iliamna  Lake area  in the  last 15                                                                    
     years?   How many people participate  in the commercial                                                                    
     fishing today?   How many  Native allotments  have been                                                                    
     sold to make ends meet?   Where are people with limited                                                                    
     or no  credit going to  get the  vast sums of  money to                                                                    
     get back into  fishing?  What is  the unemployment rate                                                                    
     of this subregion,  and make sure you  count the people                                                                    
     who  haven't had  a job  in  so long  that they  aren't                                                                    
     currently  statistically  counted  in the  UI  formula.                                                                    
     How  much   money  in  food  stamps,   welfare,  energy                                                                    
     assistance, unemployment,  and other federal  and state                                                                    
     social programs are  distributed in this area?   How do                                                                    
     these  communities  with  limited  funds  compete  with                                                                    
     required matching  funds for infrastructure  versus our                                                                    
     neighbors 30 miles distance in CDQ communities?                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
     This  entity  sanctioned  by   the  federal  and  state                                                                    
     government has  in excess  of $70  million in  cash and                                                                    
     assets and has  a huge advantage over us  on Denali and                                                                    
     other  grants,  individual   and  community  expansion,                                                                    
     education,  revenue, et  cetera.    BBEDC [Bristol  Bay                                                                    
     Economic Development Corporation]  (indisc.) stands for                                                                    
     Bristol  Bay's economically  disadvantaged communities.                                                                    
     What  are the  crime rate  statistics for  this region?                                                                    
     How  come unorganized  communities  in  this region  of                                                                    
     Lake and  Peninsula Borough are not  eligible for state                                                                    
     revenue sharing, but  provide state regulated services?                                                                    
     How are  we going to  be sustainable and  provide local                                                                    
     services  with no  revenue options?   This  legislation                                                                    
     has  the potential  to  preclude  borough formation  in                                                                    
     other parts of the unorganized  areas of the state.  It                                                                    
     puts  limits on  the tools  of local  government.   The                                                                    
     former Lieutenant Governor  Loren Leman, while recently                                                                    
     in office,  told a well-attended  group of  Bristol Bay                                                                    
     leaders to  listen carefully to  this new  industry and                                                                    
     to train  our people and prepare  strategies to benefit                                                                    
     from it.   Our  village did  just that  referencing the                                                                    
     Bristol Bay  area plan and  investing over  $750,000 in                                                                    
     debt  by loans  to provide  housing and  other services                                                                    
     for mineral exploration, which  we are deriving benefit                                                                    
     from  today.    Northern   Dynasty  Mines  and  similar                                                                    
     companies  have provided  jobs  and training,  combined                                                                    
     with transportation to and from  our village for people                                                                    
     who wanted to work.  I  don't know what else they could                                                                    
     do to date.  I do  know that one of our village council                                                                    
     elected officials,  a former  Bristol Bay  drift permit                                                                    
     holder,  commented  that  he   is  very  excited  about                                                                    
     working  and feeding  his family  of six  while at  the                                                                    
     same  time being  in a  work environment  surrounded by                                                                    
     family,  friends,  and relatives.    He  said that  the                                                                    
     current mail box work mentality  of our region must end                                                                    
     if  communities   are  to  become  healthy   and  self-                                                                    
     sufficient.   I  feel  these are  words  of wisdom  and                                                                    
     deserve  respect.   Mr.  Coghill  from the  legislature                                                                    
     recently  told  me,  about impending  school  closures,                                                                    
     that he didn't  think it was the  responsibility of the                                                                    
     state body  legislature to create laws  and programs to                                                                    
     keep villages  alive.  Well,  we don't think  it's fair                                                                    
     to create laws that will inhibit or close them either.                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
     This proposal,  [HB] 134 is ill-founded  and -conceived                                                                    
     and  IVC [Igiugig  Village Council]  rejects it  in its                                                                    
     entirety.  Out of mutual  respect we ask Mr. Edgmon and                                                                    
     others  who  propose  such  types  of  further  natural                                                                    
     resource  restrictions  in  our  region  to  visit  our                                                                    
     community and  familiarize yourselves  with us  and our                                                                    
     economic problems  before including  us.   Please don't                                                                    
     continue to  send our community  into the  trenches for                                                                    
     survival holding a gun with  no opportunity to have any                                                                    
     bullets.  Thank you.                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
9:33:09 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CLARA ANGASAN, stated opposition to  HB 134, citing concerns that                                                               
it would prohibit  economic development of the area.   She opined                                                               
that  the  village  residents  are emigrating,  due  to  lack  of                                                               
opportunities, causing schools  to close.  HB 134  will not allow                                                               
development  to change  this economic  downturn.   She questioned                                                               
the use  of the term subsistence  as a modern day  lifestyle, and                                                               
argument  against  progress.   If  a  subsistence lifestyle  were                                                               
being lived, she  maintained, there would not  be dictates issued                                                               
for the number  of fish that could be taken,  residents would not                                                               
be living on welfare, and the  children would not be living in an                                                               
electronic culture.   Pebble Mine does not have a  permit as yet,                                                               
and  people  are  fearful  of  the unknown.    The  children  and                                                               
grandchildren [in  the villages]  will need jobs,  she predicted,                                                               
and the mine will provide them possibilities.                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
9:36:52 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
SALLY  GUMLICKPUK, President,  Stuyahok  Limited, stated  support                                                               
for HB  134, paraphrasing from  a prepared statement,  which read                                                               
as follows:                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
     I  put up  subsistence fish  every summer,  and harvest                                                                    
     the moose,  and caribou, when  in season.   These foods                                                                    
     ... survive on  the clean waters of our region.   So in                                                                    
     order for  our continued  survival, and for  our future                                                                    
     generations to come, we urge you to pass this HB 134.                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
9:39:54 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
JOHN  TOPPENBERG,  Director,  Alaska  Wildlife  Alliance,  stated                                                               
support  for  HB 134,  paraphrasing  from  a prepared  statement,                                                               
which read as follows:                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
     We believe  that putting a renewable  resource at great                                                                    
     risk,  in order  to ease  the work  of a  non-renewable                                                                    
     resource, is not in the  best long-term interest of all                                                                    
     Alaskan's.    The  emerging eco-tourism  industry  will                                                                    
     provide  sustainable  income  for many  generations  of                                                                    
     Alaskan's.      The  villages   experiencing   economic                                                                    
     hardships   must  start   working   with  the   tourism                                                                    
     industry,  and others,  to explore  this promising  new                                                                    
     industry.  This will not  happen if our streams fail to                                                                    
     support wild Alaska.   Many of the  points made earlier                                                                    
     in favor of this bill, we're certainly in support of.                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
9:41:16 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR SEATON closed public testimony.                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
9:41:40 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR SEATON asked how well  water use relates to perfected water                                                               
rights.   Further, as the  bill is  written, does it  require the                                                               
curtailment  of operations,  which  do not  hold perfected  water                                                               
rights, or prohibit applicants from obtaining the rights.                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
JOSEPH  JOYNER, Natural  Resource  Manager,  Division of  Mining,                                                               
Land  and  Water,  Department of  Natural  Resources  (DNR),  the                                                               
method of  appropriation doesn't  alter the requirement  of water                                                               
right,  whether it  is taken  from  a stream  or  a well.   If  a                                                               
perfected water right is not held,  it would need to be obtained.                                                               
The  bill, as  written,  may prohibit  someone  from obtaining  a                                                               
perfected water right.                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
9:44:28 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  JOHNSON  asked  how   many  lodges  in  the  area                                                               
currently hold perfected water rights.                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
MR. JOYNER said that the answer would need to be researched.                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE JOHNSON maintained his interest for discovery.                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR SEATON requested,  on behalf of the committee,  that a list                                                               
of  the  commercial  users  and water  right  permit  holders  be                                                               
compiled and submitted for reference.                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
9:45:20 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR SEATON recapped the status of  the bill.  The three days of                                                               
public  testimony have  raised  issues to  be  considered by  the                                                               
sponsor, including:   the constitutionality  of water  rights, as                                                               
identified by  DNR; whether DNR  would be allowed to  grant water                                                               
rights/use   permits   to   existing,   or   future,   commercial                                                               
operations; and  the exempted  uses vs.  user's language,  and to                                                               
whom this applies.  Additionally,  the chair asked the sponsor to                                                               
consider the separation, or clarification,  of the three primary:                                                               
pollution  and  discharges;  removal, outtake,  or  diversion  of                                                               
water;  and the  land  changes, particularly  the prohibition  of                                                               
conversion  to dry  land.    Exemptions in  the  CS for  projects                                                               
pertaining  to  transportation,  energy, and  seafood  processing                                                               
should be  specified and defined.   As an example, he  said, if a                                                               
portion of  a proposed  project includes  an energy  aspect, does                                                               
that qualify the  entire project for exemption status.   Thus, if                                                               
Pebble [Mine] proposed  a 300 kilo watt line,  providing power to                                                               
villages in  the area, would  that qualify as an  energy project;                                                               
does the  construction of  the super highway  to access  the mine                                                               
site, qualify the mine as a transportation project.                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
9:50:34 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE EDGMON acknowledged  the scope of HB  134, and the                                                               
concerns that have been brought forth.   He offered that a number                                                               
of unintended  consequences are being identified,  but the intent                                                               
of the bill is  not to be punitive to any entity.   The intent is                                                               
to protect the renewable resources  of the region, and the salmon                                                               
industry.   The Bristol Bay  Fisheries Reserve has been  in place                                                               
since 1972, and he read from statute [not cited]:                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
     Within  the Bristol  Bay Fisheries  Reserve no  surface                                                                    
     entry  permit to  develop an  oil or  gas lease  may be                                                                    
     issued  on state  owned or  controlled lands  unless by                                                                    
     appropriate resolution of the legislature.                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  EDGMON pointed  out  that  this existing  statute                                                               
provides restrictions, or caveats, for  oversight to be upheld by                                                               
the legislature,  in terms of  oil and  gas leases.   The concern                                                               
for the  impacts of  a non-renewable  resources development  on a                                                               
renewable resource, he  stressed, were at the  forefront in 1972,                                                               
and HB 134 is a bill to bring  that concern forward in a new day,                                                               
and a new era.                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
9:54:59 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR SEATON stated that this topic is controversial because the                                                                
issues are important.                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
[HB 134 was held over.]                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
ADJOURNMENT                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
There being no further business before the committee, the House                                                                 
Special Committee on Fisheries meeting was adjourned at 9:55.                                                                   

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